In an interview with Caucasus Watch, the German coordinator for Russia, Central Asia and the Eastern Partnership, Johann Saathoff, spoke about the new challenges on the way to peace in the Caucasus.

Georgia is currently affected by a deep socio-political crisis. The EU's efforts in dealing with the crisis are substantial. Is a solution in sight and how can the political dialogue be further supported?

The European Union has prominently been involved in mediation between the political parties in Georgia once again. During his visit to Georgia at the beginning of March, the President of the European Council, Charles Michel, tried to mediate between the government and the opposition personally and subsequently through his special envoy Christian Danielsson - the ruling party Georgian Dream signed a proposal on April 16. After the opposition parties continued to insist on early elections and the release of the two prominent prisoners Nika Melia and Giorgi Rurua, EU Council President Michel put forward another proposal on April 18, specifically on the two points contested by the opposition. The Georgian Dream and the smaller opposition party Girchi have expressed their willingness to agree to this proposal. Last year, some embassies in Georgia - including the German one - got involved to facilitate a compromise in the conflict between the government and the opposition over the right to vote. The efforts of the EU and Germany to mediate are therefore energetic - in the end, however, it is important that the warring camps themselves find the will to approach each other and implement the necessary reforms through the parliamentary process. Compromise lies at the heart of parliamentary democracy - and thus also stands for the Euro-Atlantic integration.

How do you assess the post-war situation in the South Caucasus, and how can the German Government contribute to the reconciliation between Armenians and Azeris, especially at the civil society level, or have there already been specific proposals and initiatives in this regard?

It is important that the guns fall silent again and that no more people lose their lives in the fight over Nagorno-Karabakh. It is shocking that more than 6,000 people were killed in the six-week fighting last autumn, according to official figures from Armenia and Azerbaijan. However, the situation in the region remains tense, even after the armistice of November 9/10 2020 and there are still many questions unanswered. There can only be a diplomatic solution for Nagorno-Karabakh in the long term. This can be achieved through negotiations on an equal footing between the two conflicting parties, Armenia and Azerbaijan. The OSCE Minsk Group, of which Germany is a member, remains the right framework for such negotiations. The German government has assured the three chairmen of the group - France, Russia and the USA - that it is willing to provide more support.

In the long term, the civil societies of Armenia and Azerbaijan will play an important role in opening up spaces for debate through cross-border exchange, reduce prejudices and resentments inflamed by the war, and thus enable an understanding and reconciliation in general. That is the long-term view that I continue to hold onto. This year, the Federal Foreign Office is funding several civil society projects that deal with reconciliation projects in the Nagorno-Karabakh region and in the general South Caucasus region as part of the “Expanding Cooperation with Civil Society in the Eastern Partnership Countries and Russia” program. In addition, the German government stands ready to support a revival of the civil society dialogue between the conflicting parties.

From the region, however, we continue to receive signals and messages that stand for the deep hostilities that prevent Armenia and Azerbaijan from reconciliation and cooperation: There has been great outrage on the Armenian side since Azerbaijan's President Aliyev opened a kind of trophy park in Baku. This park contains looted weapons of the enemy and displays re-enacted war scenes with macabre wax dolls in Armenian uniforms and other looted material. The Azerbaijani side accuses Armenia of a lack of cooperation in the removal of landmines and booby traps laid by Armenian forces during the war. Several people, including civilians, have been killed by mines since the end of the war, most recently on April 16.

From my point of view, Armenia and Azerbaijan both have an interest in starting a very pragmatic political dialogue with one another as quickly as possible, in order to find factual solutions for the huge challenges that both face - in particular out of an obligation to the wellbeing of their own populations. Both governments should base their actions on this and refrain from shrill tones and demonstrative gestures of irreconcilability, which could make it even more difficult for the other side to enter the dialogue. From my point of view, militaristic rhetoric and European values ​​cannot be reconciled with one another. For the dialogue between civil societies, for which I am primarily responsible in my function, it is beneficial if political leaders exemplify the courage to deal with each other’s representatives, their history and values ​in a civil and dialogue-oriented manner. Incidentally, there is a very impressive example of the success of pragmatic political dialogue paired with civil society rapprochement resulting in reconciliation: European unification.

In view of the planned opening of regional communications in the South Caucasus, will the Eastern Partnership program set new priorities and how will the new realities in the region affect the program?

The Eastern Partnership remains an important instrument for the EU and its member states to strengthen democracy, stability and prosperity in all states in the region. Indispensable democratic values ​​such as the rule of law and the protection of human rights, the fight against corruption and discrimination, the role of independent media and the strengthening of civil society as well as the promotion of gender equality will continue to be part of the objectives. The EU's incentive-based approach (“more for more” and “less for less”) will continue to benefit the partner countries that are most committed to reform. Building on the most important successes of recent years and including all relevant actors, the EU updated the priorities in spring 2020 as part of a so-called Joint Communication and defined strengthening the resilience of partner countries as an overarching political goal. That is the current status of the program

How has the Covid-19 pandemic affected civil society cooperation with the countries of the Eastern Partnership, in particular the South Caucasus states?    

First of all, of course, it has been impacted because traveling between Germany and these countries has been very complicated for more than a year. The ambassadors of practically all countries, with which I, as the coordinator, have special relationships, invited me to visit their home countries - unfortunately, because of the pandemic, I have only been able to take one short trip so far. I hope that more trips will follow soon, because when I took up my post in August 2020 I had planned many meetings on site. At the same time, the technical possibilities for virtual encounters have spread very quickly within a year, which, by the way, also greatly facilitates the exchange between people in Germany and its eastern neighborhood in general. Of course, the personal encounter from person to person remains irreplaceable - but it is my impression that practically all actors in inter-social cooperation continue their important work as well as possible and, above all, in a very committed fashion.

Worrying news of extrajudicial murders in Chechnya recently came out of the North Caucasus. Is this topic on the EU's agenda and what can be done to verify this information and, if necessary, protect affected families?

The German government is very concerned that there are repeated reports of the most serious violations of human rights, especially from Chechnya. We are addressing this again and again, including in international organizations such as the United Nations and the OSCE, because Russia is obliged to respect human rights in the North Caucasus. Germany and fifteen other participants from the OSCE commissioned an independent report to check the credibility of the reports on human rights violations. This report was published in 2018. It also contains specific recommendations on how Russia can meet its commitments. Unfortunately, since the report was published, we have not seen that the recommendations were addressed or that the situation fundamentally changed.

Interview conducted by Philip Röhrs-Weist